As I was driving back home again from school today, i was thinking to myself about 2 scenario's that i think what might of happened if....? Its 2 scenario's in which i know that will trigger alot of responses. And hopefully you all will fully understand what im talkin about unlike the last topic i brought up (dynamic duo's, in which i asked for 2 rappers not groups!!). So here we go!:
Would Bad Boy still be on top if Biggie was still here? Interesting question isnt it? My answer would be a empahatic YES!! Why? Check the steez, If BIG was still here, Puff would still be focused on music not Hollywood. He would of made sure his label would of never fall off like it has. Mase would have never retired, BIG's death played a major part in his thinkin and thats why he decided to retire and turn his life over to God (a decision in which i have no problem with). The LOX would still be on Bad Boy, BIG had a major influence on those dudes man, they loved BIG so they would have stayed. The only person that would still be gone is Craig Mack, cause he left while BIG was still there. Also if yall think Craig Mack & BIG was cool, yall might be mistaken cause i have a interview from BIG in '96 sayin the only reason he was on Flava In Ya Ear was because of a favor. From who? who knows, probably Puff. But thats another story. Also Black Rob, Total, Faith Evans & Carl Thomas would still b doin they thang. So now i pose u the question, would Bad Boy still be on top if BIG was still here?
What would Rocafella be like if Big L was still here and signed with them in back in '99? Im tellin u right now, The ROC would be the shit cause Big L would took that label to the next level. We already know Jay & L has excellent chemistry so it would only be a matter of time before he woulda developed it with Beans & Bleek. Also i think Jay & Dame would still be cool, cause L was from Harlem and Dame would be proud. Plus Jay was already kool with L. The downfall of the ROC to me was back in '02 when they signed Camron. Cam was kool with Dame and u already know that was a Harlem thing. But Cam & Jay never saw eye to eye. And things got worse when Jay went on vacation in mid '02, and Dame was talkin about Cam runnin the ROC. Me and my peoples was like WTF? And before u know it, when Jay came back he started hiring different staff from Dame's staff and so on. It was never the same. If L would of signed then there would of been no need for Cam, plus Dame & Jay woulda been happy cause L was nigga they both liked. Thats my take on it, so whats urs? Would the ROC still be on top if Big L was still here and would of signed with them back in '99?
Holla back people!!
13 comments:
Man you think hard!! I don't believe in should've would've could've's so I can't imagine I believe everything happens for a reason!!!We don't know how either of them would've been after major success!! I agree the talent that surrounded BIG at that time may have stayed but none the less they were all trying to get paid!!! I think Puff said don't blame me for trying to bury 7 0's over in Rio Di Gen ere. Puff was and is about entertainment and money his idea was to get rich off the culture of hi hop and it's paid divis!! I have accepted that what they gave us alive is enough to make us still talk about em today now that's hype!!!
I was talking to wifey two days about the problems with Rocafella. Big L would have definitely been a better fit than Camron but I told her that the biggest influence would have been if Aaliyah hadn't died, amrried Dame and then signed with them. She would have been the star of the label and sold a ton of records and may have been the glue that kept everyone together and paid.
Vincent
thimk.wordpress.com
your blog is very good......
had to sign up for this one ive been thinking this for years. first let me give you a major shout hommie seriously from the bottom of my heart ive been looking for show me the money part 2 on cd for about 8 years actually most of the clues you came through with and craig g needed come on now by lox forgot about that song i was in 10 11th grade when that came out.i think biggie would of did his own thing eventually i agree murda would of stayed lox would have been down with big but doing there own thing also. nas az lox my top 5 mase was up there but he left but i dont think rocafella would have blown when big was alive hov wasnt in the discussion of best rapper nas and big so jay would be under biggie.would hov been able to sign beans it could have been puff or some else to get at him. big still be here mite of motivated nas keeping the firm together.big didnt need puff after he blow puff needed big, your rite what if kiss said it the best if big was alive alot shit will be diffrent
You could've also hypothesized on whether or not Death Row would still be on top if Tupac is alive, but back to your question. First on Bad Boy. My answer is no, biggie being alive would not matter. No one truly knows how tight the relationship b/w big and puff was toward the end other than their insider click, but i belive puff was on the verge of doing his hollywood thing anyways and Biggie being alive wouldn't have mattered. How long can that relationship have lasted? Secondly, it's a different market of consumers for "hip pop" since the year 2000. I really can't imagine biggie being marketable in this day and age to the youngsters who fuel whatever is left over of the record industry with ring tone purchases, BET 106 & park and whatnot. Take a look at BET's music video shows and it's nothing but 14-18yr olds in the audience. Can you imagine Biggie coming on to that kinda show to promote his shit? Can he connect with these kids? There'll definitely be a large number of followers, the "ol skoolers" that were down from day one, but what if Biggie were to dumb his shit down for the masses like Jay-Z has for years now? Would they still love & respect his music? The same goes for their R&B acts. R&B ain't what it used to be, and their roster of the likes of Faith, 112, Carl Thomas, etc are just too old to be marketable today.
Similar logic applies to Big L & Rocafella. I love Big L but he couldn't have done shit for Roc if he signed with them and was alive today. Roc fell off the second Jay-Z broke off from them and his relationship with Dame went sour. Now if Jay-Z was still with the Roc and they had Big L, then that might be a different story. As much as i hate Jay-Z now you gotta respect his game and the way he's still able to market himself even at the age of 40-something which could be considered ancient in today's hip pop market. So maybe he would be able to steer Big L into a profitable and marketable niche with the Roc. But even that i doubt. Jay tried his thing as a head honcho of record lable like Def Jam, but look at what happened to them and their acts that they brought under like The Roots. Jay didn't do shit for them and i highly doubt they gained any new fans that weren't aware of them before. Jay was always first and foremost about doing his own thing as a business man like Puff. The other artists that they had like Freeway, Beenie, even MOP just don't have the appeal to bring in a large enough market to make Roc the top label. Now Aaliyah? That's interesting, she definitely was extremely popular and on top of her game when she died. But i'm not so sure how much she could've done for a hip hop label.
Now, the case that I brought forth about whether Death Row would still be on top if Tupac didn't die I think has the best chance. Of course there were so many other variables that can play into this hypothesis like their top producer Dr Dre departing a year or so before Tupac died, Snoop and Dogg Pound having major beef with Suge, but on an individual level Tupac alone would have the best shot at keeping a record label on top in today's market. He would be fairly old too today, somewhere around 37 or so, but his broad appeal can't be denied. Biggie also had broad appeal but i think Tupac was better at creating drama and attracting the spot light. Biggie seemed more of an introvert. Out of these two Tupac definitely would have more beefs with other artists in today's game which you know sells more records. I honestly think Tupac would have all the other corny ass rappers today shook. I don't think anyone would dare try to create fake beef with Tupac cause he would shatter them to pieces. Biggie also can lyrically shred anyone, but you can't deny he seemed more to be a "lover not a fighter" for lack of a better word. Now, this is not to say that I think Tupac is better than Biggie and Big L. I'm personally an old skool east coast head so i prefer Biggie and Big L's shit to Tupac any day, but i definitely loved tupac's old shit and ol skool Death Row music, no doubt.
One last note I wanna add, and that is that the original hypothesis of which label would still be on top is in and of itself outdated in today's market. Think about it, back in the days we had the likes of Bad Boy, Death Row, Rocafella, Loud Records, So So Def, Rap-a-lot, Def Jam, etc. They have all withered away into history. More recently we have the likes of G-Unit, The Game's Black Wall Street, Slim Shady/Interscope, etc. They've all faded away or are fading away. So what does this tell us? It tells us that the days of label brand strongholds and even consumer loyalty to labels has been and is a thing of the past. Nowadays it's more of individual artists doing their own thing and trying to market themselves into a brand and dabbing into not only hip hop music but other areas like movies, commercials, etc. An artist can come out strong initially and try to make his own label and put it on the map, but that won't last long in today's market. Prime examples are 50 Cent and his G-Unit and The Game and his Black Wall Street. So relating all of this to your original question, who knows whether or not Bad Boy/Death Row/Rocafella would've even remained as cornerstone labels if those artists were alive today? Those artists might have branched out to do their individual things along with the other artists under those respective labels, or they might have faded away along with other labels of today.
But ask yourself this: if all of the variables were taken out of "what if's" and all 3 labels (Death Row/Roc/Bad Boy) still had all their artists intact in the way we remembered them in the past, who would dominate? Personally I'd say Death Row hands down. Consider the roster they had: Tupac and his Outlaws, Dr Dre, Snoop, Dogg Pound, Nate Dogg & Warren G. Compare that to Bad Boy's Biggie, Mase, Craig Mack, The Lox, Black Rob and their R&B acts like 112, Faith Evan, and Carl Thomas. Also compare that to Roc's Jay-Z, Freeway, Beenie Siegel, Camron, Big L, and I'll include Aaliyah. I'm not saying who would have the best quality of music but when you look at those rosters, Death Row by far has the most appeal and chance at being on top as a label.
LOL i think u gotta be honest with ya self if Big was alive he would be washed up and played out kinda like Snoop and probaly would have jumped labels and management twice over. And Puff would most likely be the same Puff. Big L is a little harder to call but I couldnt see hime rocking Juelz and Jim Jones, it dont fit. Peace.
i remember when big l got shot and the only news i could find about it was a half page article in the source...i WAS in Ottawa, but still, big l was dope but he would've never blown up, even on the roc, with his style.
as much as dipset suck, a whole lot of people were bumping their shit. if l would've switched up and gone for radio play, his (relatively) few fans would've been gone.
l made some great records but he was never going to move rocafella numbers.
sean combs ripped off plenty of artists, chris wallace would have bounced, just like the lox did after they figured it out
I still don't see why most rappers have their business all fucked up. In what other business is the head of the organization you work for also your manager?? That would be like Reggie Bush having the owner of the N.O. Saints as his agent. What kind of fucking sense does that make??
I don't know if he ripped them as much as held em back!! The honest truth is that Puffy didn't know what to do with the LOX so he tried to change them which didn't produce the results he wanted!!! Now for tht I believe if Biggie was around they're careers would've taken off sooner!!But lets not forget Biggie also helped to put Tracey Lee from Philly on the map who did make an album then got in some trouble if I read it correctly!! Damn shame he was pretty talented as well!! I was rapping and doing my thing at the time so I aint like him of course!! Ha!Ha!Ha!
if big was alive we'd have a commission album. that's what i'm bummed about. but yea..imagine big l on kanyeezy beats. we'll never know. odb was roc too when he croked.. damn.. bad boy / roc / ditc with wu tang mediating death row / boot camp clik. dj's woulda been havin a hella good time.
str8 up tho...time changes a lot of shit and that stamp in history suffices to me anyway. cuz stuntin stuntin is a habit get like me
-jns
I agree with many who already posted. I don't see how one person, no matter who they are, could have saved either of these labels ... and to echo a certain poster..... there is nothing (short of the elimination of cd burners and the internet) that would have saved ANY of the labels.
to "dat_triflin"
Wasn't tupacs death allegedly partly due to his soon to be departure from the row? (This only applies if you believe Suge was involved)
So if he wasn't killed (and he was indeed to leave....to start a label with the Outlawz I believe) then he would have left anyways.
Anyhow, that wasn't meant to detract from your comment. Just a thought.
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